NLL Insider

I know, I know… it’s almost impossible to figure out last week’s trade deadline day deals, especially since a lot of guys have yet to suit up for their new teams. Plus you’ve got all those ‘08 and ‘09 (even one ‘10) picks going back-and-forth. And then ya factor in those Sting rental player’s worth for the rest of this season versus not having them next. Super tough, I know.

But since we didn’t touch on too much post deadline day coverage on the site, I wanted to see what the guys were thinkin’ in this week’s NLL Player Poll. Who did they think the winners and losers on the day were (or the even stevens too)?

I also had NLL Insiders Bob Chavez, Ted Jenner and myself chime in with who we felt won the deals, just to add that media flavor to this week’s poll. I knew your Friday wouldn’t be complete without hearing from the three of us at the same time over-and-over again, so thank me later for that.

With everything you’ve gotta factor into this year’s trades, I kinda just asked guys to go with their gut, and left it at that.

I also threw in some of the deals that had their switch flipped a little earlier than last week. The Brenden Thenhaus move, the Ian Rubel trade and so on.

Here’s how to votes shook-out..

Edmonton gets Brenden Thenhaus
Philadelphia gets Edmonton’s 2008 third round pick (conditional)
A.	Edmonton wins	47%
B.	Philadelphia wins	7%
C.	Pretty even deal	46%

Player’s Comments:

“Edmonton got a guy who is a starter in this league and generally, 3rd round and later draft picks don’t make the team right away.”

“Thenhaus has played pretty well so far, and you never know who you can find in the 3rd round.”

“It’s not like his trade value was that high. Lindsay got what he could and got the kid some minutes.”

NLL Insider’s Comments:

“Thenhaus didn’t see much time in Philly but that’s not his fault, really. The offense is loaded there, so being shipped to Edmonton worked for him because it put him in a regular lineup. His arrival is one of a few that’s breathed new life into the Rush as they make a serious run at the playoffs.” Bob Chavez

“Well I’m going to have say this is a great deal for the rush.  Thenhaus has gotten some solid minutes already and is making immediate impact. Now being that it’s a conditional pick, the Wings may do better than they hoped. But for right now, Rush Win.” Ted Jenner

“Think Thenhaus is still kinda an unknown commodity in this league, but for those that have seen him play full-time in the summer, you know he’s got some serious game. Hard to knock Lindsay for dealing him, since I think part of it was so he wasn’t gonna get wasted in their lineup, but still think Thenhaus is gonna be better than whoever that pick ends up being.” Paul Tutka

Insider’s vote… 3-0 Edmonton

Minnesota gets Keith Cromwell, Dan Marohl and Edmonton’s 2009 second round pick
Philadelphia gets AJ Shannon and Minnesota’s 2008 fourth round pick
Edmonton gets Mike Hominuck and Minnesota’s 2008 first round pick
A.	Minnesota wins	38%
B.	Philadelphia wins	14%
C.	Edmonton wins	39%
D.	Pretty even deal	9%

Player’s Comments:

“Think Edmonton wins this trade. Good finisher with Hominuck and a first rounder. Really there’s no one worth a first rounder in this deal.”

“Minnesota definitely loses here. Cromwell and Marohl weren’t even dressing in Philly.”

“AJ is going to make some noise once that knee’s all good.”

“Are any of them healthy enough to play?”

“Hominuk has made an immediate impact.”

NLL Insider’s Comments:

“Hominuck’s arrival in Edmonton is a big reason for that team’s new surge while Minnesota got some bodies to fill some holes left by injuries. Philly got some immediate help from the veteran Shannon, whose leadership and experience could be more valuable than any kind of numbers he can put up. For a team that’s really hungry to get the Champion’s Cup back, Philly made a smart move.” Chavez

“Again, look at immediate impact. Since joining their respective new teams, the Rush have been going up and the wings and swarm are moving down. Plus throw in a first round pick and the Rush not only look good now, but the future is bright!” Jenner

“Actually kinda like what Minnesota got here. Kinda sucks that Marohl got hurt, but it definitely gave them a ton of depth and two guys that are definitely everyday guys in this league. I also think when you factor in who’s available in the next two draft years, that second rounder in 09 that Marty picked up is just as good as a late first round pick this year.” Tutka

Insider’s vote… three way tie

Edmonton gets Lindsay Plunkett (Arizona Sting rental)
Chicago gets Edmonton’s 2008 third round pick (conditional) and Edmonton’s 2009 third round pick (conditional)
A.	Edmonton wins	33%
B.	Chicago wins	44%
C.	Pretty even deal	23%

Player’s Comments:

“Although the chances of Zona coming back are slim, and another dispersal would be embarrassing for this league, I think Chicago gets some solid picks.”

“All depends on the rental player situation.”

“Third rounders? Who has ever come out of the third round?”

“As good as some of those guys are, I’m glad we didn’t pick up any of those Sting players. Just doesn’t make any sense. Real messy situation.”

NLL Insider’s Comments:

“Yet another piece of the resurgent puzzle is Plunkett arriving in Edmonton for immediate production, while Chicago gets a couple of non-descript draft picks for an uncertain future.” Chavez

“Being that Plunks is a rental player, I think giving up two mid round picks is an ok deal here. Both teams come away with a small win here. Trade is a draw though.” Jenner

“I’m kinda under the belief that unless you’re gonna be a legit Cup contender this year, you grab what you can for the Sting guys. A couple mid rounders are better than nuthin’ and even though Plunkett is about as solid as they come, think Hamley did ok on the trade.” Tutka

Insider’s vote… undecided

Chicago gets Matt Roik, Brad Self, Philadelphia’s 2009 first round pick and Philadelphia’s 2010 second round pick
Philadelphia gets Brandon Miller and Chicago’s 2008 second round pick
A.	Chicago wins	77%
B.	Philadelphia wins	18%
C.	Pretty even deal	5%

Player’s Comments:

“This one doesn’t make much sense. Roik has started to prove his doubters wrong and the picks will formulate into something beneficial.”

“Look at their respective records after the trade. No brainer.”

“If Roik wasn’t such a headcase Chicago might win this deal. Philly unloaded 2 players that would never play there again, and got a tender for next year.”

“I don’t get what Batley is doing? He keeps Scoff Self but trades for Brad. One guy he’ll lose either way at the end of the season and the other guy plays hockey for most of the winter in Germany. This isn’t summer ball!”

NLL Insider’s Comments:

“A couple of capable backup goalies were traded for each other, but Chicago got a nice player in Self. Trading for draft picks can be a good thing, but it’s even better if you’ll be able to use that draft pick this year instead of two years down the road. Philly wins the deal.” Chavez

“Well we see that Roik is back to his old form. I never doubted that he was as top NLL tender, just got a raw deal in Philly in my mind. B-miller will be the Wings starter next season so both teams filled the starting tender hole. Now the big variable here is, where is Brad Self? And will he ever step onto the turf again?  Draw.” Jenner

“Even though Roik has had some great starts since the deal and Miller hasn’t really had much of an impact with the Wings, think long term those two kinda even one another out in this swap. With that said, think Chicago picked up two good picks in two pretty top heavy draft years. Gotta give the slight edge to Chi-Town.” Tutka

Insider’s vote… draw

Minnesota gets Ian Rubel
Toronto gets Minnesota’s 2009 second round pick
A.	Minnesota wins	43%
B.	Toronto wins	27%
C.	Pretty even deal	30%

Player’s Comments:

“I’d always be up for having a guy like Rubes on the bench.”

“Not sure what the heck went on there and why he lost his spot with the Rock. Think Swarm win this one.”

“He’s lost a step in recent years. Not playing much at a high level doesn’t help.”

NLL Insider’s Comments:

“The Rock had defense to spare, but the Swarm needed bodies immediately. Now that the Rock have Lewis Ratcliff in the lineup, the improved offense can support the always-tough defense. Plus, Toronto has a solid pick in a 2009 draft that includes a talented class of prospects that already has GMs salivating.” Chavez

“Another draw in my mind. Rubes was sitting on the sideline, wasting away. At least Toronto got something for him and a 2nd rounder is pretty good!” Jenner

“It really depends on what the Rock do with that second rounder, but it’s not like Rubes is that old of a guy either. Plus he’s built like a bull. Rubel’s a starter in the NLL and I think Minnesota gets a guy that still has wheels to hang around in the game for a while. If he was an old fart, well then maybe, but Ian’s not even 30 yet and is in better shape than 99% of the guys in the league.” Tutka

Insider’s vote… draw

Edmonton gets Ian Crashley, Matt King and Portland’s 2009 first round pick
Portland gets Matt Disher and Edmonton’s 2009 fourth round pick
A.	Edmonton wins	79%
B.	Portland wins	9%
C.	Pretty even deal	12%

Player’s Comments:

“Hands down Edmonton. A first rounder and good project in Crashley for someone who has backed up most of the year. Not a good trade for Portland.”

“Crashley cut your finger nails!”

“Need a goalie to step up this year and I believe Disher will.”

“Edmonton wins the deal but on behalf of Derek Keenan it had to be done. King and Eliuk have been bad.”

NLL Insider’s Comments:

“The Rush gets another draft pick, but this one is a first-rounder in the 2009 draft. Crashley’s been a big contributor and King will be solid when called upon. Disher has the job in Portland the rest of the way, but the extra body and the first-round pick gives Edmonton the edge here.” Chavez

“WIN FOR THE RUSH!!! Hands down. Nothing against Dish, but getting two young athletic players and a first rounder?!! Hamley is a genius! Steal of the deadline!” Jenner

“I know Keenan was trying to address some needs heading into the stretch drive (and succeeded by grabbing Disher), but Hammer definitely won this one. I just finished hyping Crashley in the latest ish of IL, written well before the deal went off, so you know how I feel about him. And then you throw Kinger and those picks in and this one is a big time win for the Rush. Long term, this deal will make Shooter for Lewis look like a nothing move on the day. Big time long term implications here, but Hammer probably won short term too.” Tutka

Insider’s vote… Rush in a landslide

Colorado gets Chris Gill and Edmonton’s 2008 second round pick
Edmonton gets Colorado’s 2008 first round pick
A.	Colorado wins	39%
B.	Edmonton wins	43%
C.	Pretty even deal	18%

Player’s Comments:

“This makes no sense; unless Gilly plans on retiring soon. Edmonton gives up an early second round pick for a late first rounder???”

“A first rounder for a guy who is only happy when he’s on a good team?”

“Gill the Thrill is good. Plus Govett probably just wanted a reason to make bad jokes about 2 guys on his team with the same name.” on Govett’s standup skills, which made an appearance on this past week’s coach’s conference call… crickets (although I was laughing while on mute)

NLL Insider’s Comments:

“Chris Gill is back in Colorado, which needs some kind — any kind — of spark to get back on track. The draft picks could very well end up just a few picks apart, so gaining a body and immediate contributor has to make Colorado the winner here.” Chavez

“Another win for the Rush. A first round pick for a guy that wasn’t fitting in well and having an off year. The pick brings youth and promise for next year.” Jenner

“I know Hammer is trying to get young, swap out some of the older vets for some fresh feet, but I gotta say, I think Govett really did a good job here. Gill worked some serious magic with Dan Carey a couple years back, coincidently a Champ Cup winning season, and I think when you break down those two picks, there won’t be many guys taken in-between them. Short term gain outweighs the pretty similar picks here. A win-win kinda deal, but gonna give Govett the assist on this one for the slight edge.” Tutka

Insider’s vote… Colorado 2-1

Edmonton gets Dan Teat, Buffalo’s 2009 first round pick and Buffalo’s 2008 second round pick
Buffalo gets Mike Accursi
A.	Edmonton wins	77%
B.	Buffalo wins	18%
C.	Pretty even deal	5%

Player’s Comments:

“I hope you guys are seeing a pattern here. Next year’s draft is going to be all Edmonton and Chicago. Good job to both teams.”

“You don’t trade a captain right before playoffs.”

“Hamley fleeced him, but obviously Darris is going for broke for the Cup this year.”

NLL Insider’s Commnets:

“Accursi’s back on a familiar floor, but Edmonton gets yet another draft pick (that’s two first-rounders in 2008 and two in 2009) to build for the future, while the talent of Teat should be an immense help. The way the Rush have been playing since Hamley’s arrival is proof that the franchise is on the upswing.” Chavez

“If it was player for player, it’s a draw, but once again, Hammer is able to bring in future young studs that will help bring the rush to the top of the west!” Jenner

“Obviously pound-for-pound, Hammer takes this one, but what if Accursi, like he was in Rochester last year, the difference maker while the Bandits win the 08 Champ’s Cup? Is a title this year bigger than a couple picks down the road? I’ll give the deal to the Rush, but if Darris and his crew win it all this year, gotta change my vote.” Tutka

Insider’s vote… Edmonton wins

Toronto gets Lewis Ratcliff and Calgary’s 2009 first or second round pick (conditional)
Calgary gets Josh Sanderson and Toronto’s 2008 first round pick
A.	Toronto wins	20%
B.	Calgary wins	48%
C.	Pretty even deal	32%

Player’s Comments:

“Sanderson. I say this because Shooter will help Calgary more than Lewis will help Toronto. Shooter sees the floor like few can.”

“Not all about the points, Josh brings wins. Period.”

“Lewis just wasn’t working in that offense like he used to since the coaching change. Think we’ll see a reinvigorated Shooter now that he’s outta Toronto.”

“Who the hell is going to run the Rock’s offense? Ratcliff is not a replacement for Sanderson or even Doyle. Three very different players. All good, but different.”

Insider’s Comments:

“Calgary gets the floor vision of Sanderson to feed capable finishers who are already there, while Toronto gets the finisher on offense it has lacked all season. That’s gotta be a draw. Hard to argue the draft picks, either, so I’m calling this whole deal a draw. Both teams got exactly what they wanted and every aspect of the deal will help both clubs right away, as well as down the road.” Chavez

“Even money DRAW. No doubt in my mind that this deal helps both teams rally in the 2nd half of the season. Holes on O filled! Both players will help out their new teams!” Jenner

“Both guys are off the charts brilliant, but I think the hole Shooter patches in Calgary will do more for the Necks than what Ratcliff does for TO. Both will do ridiculously well, and think it’ll be next to impossible to measure (since stats only tell part of the story) their true worth, but gonna give the slight edge to Calgary, especially when you factor in that guaranteed first rounder this year.” Tutka

Insider’s vote… undecided

PLUS!!! Checkout Lauren Ward’s infamous (yes infamous) Q&A’s with some of the movers and shakers from last week’s trade deadline (and beyond, actually the opposite of beyond since some guys got traded perviously, but whatever).

• Chicago’s new (but not so new) stud backstop, Matt Roik
• The Swarm’s newest vet D guy, Ian Rubel
• An oldie but a goodie, pre-trade deadline day stuff with now Roughie sniper Josh Sanderson

The foremost boxla writer, Tutka is a former NLL scout and a longtime Inside Lacrosse contributor. Email him at paul.tutka@nllinsider.com.

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